Comments on: Constitutional Crisis Trumps Legislative Battles http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/ Here are my thoughts; share yours Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:42:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: dennis hammond http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1674 dennis hammond Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:41:33 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1674 Hi Jim, You know me I've lived in Colorado for 40 years and the only "Crisis" in CO "governance" is how to better and more fully get into the pocket of the Colorado citizen. Colorado leaders spend like druken sailors on their special projects mostly that fat cow called "education" it's insatiable appetite will swallow Colorado whole and there ain't much left in people's pockets every penny possible has been borrowed and every penny spent dennis hammond Hi Jim,

You know me I’ve lived in Colorado for
40 years and the only “Crisis” in CO
“governance” is how to better and more
fully get into the pocket of the Colorado
citizen. Colorado leaders spend like
druken sailors on their special projects
mostly that fat cow called “education”
it’s insatiable appetite will swallow
Colorado whole and there ain’t much left
in people’s pockets every penny possible
has been borrowed and every penny spent

dennis hammond

]]> By: Anoldguy1944 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1675 Anoldguy1944 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:25:22 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1675 Well said. The most intimidating part will come if the select committee decides the only way to really fix the document is to more or less go back to square one and hold a constitutional convention. My former home state of Missouri did that in 1948 and managed to create a document that serves the state's purposes without excessive length. But that was 60 years ago, when "think tanks" weren't so popular, and fringe groups weren't nearly as well organized or publicized. Think of all the groups at both ends of the political spectrum in Colorado who'd love to build their particular axe-grinding cause into the "moral guidepost" of the state. Sigh. Doing nothing is unacceptable, but doing something — almost anything — carries lots of risk as well. Well said.

The most intimidating part will come if the select committee decides the only way to really fix the document is to more or less go back to square one and hold a constitutional convention. My former home state of Missouri did that in 1948 and managed to create a document that serves the state’s purposes without excessive length.

But that was 60 years ago, when “think tanks” weren’t so popular, and fringe groups weren’t nearly as well organized or publicized. Think of all the groups at both ends of the political spectrum in Colorado who’d love to build their particular axe-grinding cause into the “moral guidepost” of the state.

Sigh. Doing nothing is unacceptable, but doing something — almost anything — carries lots of risk as well.

]]> By: emisam http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1682 emisam Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:38:59 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1682 I'm trying to figure out just when Colorado became such a selfish bunch of rednecks. I would like to know, what could possibly be more important to spend money on than education? The right-wingers all across the country profess to be Christian. What is Christian about depriving children and young adults the opportunity to get the best possible education? When Owens gave back all that tax money (thanks to Doug Bruce), he put the state into a billion dollar hole. That, so every adult could have an extra $300 in their pocket! With $300, you can't make a vehicle payment, a house payment, or anything of substance. Uneducated and uninsured people don't prove anything except that Colorado has sorely misplaced priorities. Just think, those kids in public school and college right now are going to be the ones running the highways, insurance companies, banks, and nursing homes when we're ready to go into them. How does that make you feel about not funding education? If Colorado isn't the laughing stock of the country right now in regards to higher education, then it soon will be. Businesses won't want to come here when they know their employees can't put their kids in a decent neighborhood school or their graduates into a decent college without going into the poorhouse themselves. On the face of it, it's utterly self-defeating. I'm keenly interested in seeing the leadership really lead. Surely, if people like Reagan and Bush could define "moral and family values" and sell people on tax breaks that are actually breaking them, some intelligent and articulate person could make a case for turning those definitions around. I'm sure the committees are capable of this; it's a matter of, do they have the guts to try to take a bold step forward? It's time. I’m trying to figure out just when Colorado became such a selfish bunch of rednecks. I would like to know, what could possibly be more important to spend money on than education? The right-wingers all across the country profess to be Christian. What is Christian about depriving children and young adults the opportunity to get the best possible education? When Owens gave back all that tax money (thanks to Doug Bruce), he put the state into a billion dollar hole. That, so every adult could have an extra $300 in their pocket! With $300, you can’t make a vehicle payment, a house payment, or anything of substance. Uneducated and uninsured people don’t prove anything except that Colorado has sorely misplaced priorities. Just think, those kids in public school and college right now are going to be the ones running the highways, insurance companies, banks, and nursing homes when we’re ready to go into them. How does that make you feel about not funding education? If Colorado isn’t the laughing stock of the country right now in regards to higher education, then it soon will be. Businesses won’t want to come here when they know their employees can’t put their kids in a decent neighborhood school or their graduates into a decent college without going into the poorhouse themselves. On the face of it, it’s utterly self-defeating. I’m keenly interested in seeing the leadership really lead. Surely, if people like Reagan and Bush could define “moral and family values” and sell people on tax breaks that are actually breaking them, some intelligent and articulate person could make a case for turning those definitions around. I’m sure the committees are capable of this; it’s a matter of, do they have the guts to try to take a bold step forward? It’s time.

]]> By: usersuz http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1696 usersuz Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:59:04 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1696 I suppose it must be done. I just hope the wiser heads responsible for crafting changes understand what drove the citizenry to vote these items into the Constitution to begin with: the legislature was UNRESPONSIVE to public opinion. Take TABOR: most people, and I include myself, can't fully walk through the ratchet-down effect, but that wasn't what was important for us. What was important was that we be the ones to tax ourselves, or not, as we decide at any given time. So, the bottom line is no new taxes without an election. And they better stop letting "fees," for example TIF's and PIF's, stick their tongues out at the taxation ban, because they're taxes, dammit, and we never get the chance to say no. The passage of Amendment 23 was similarly motivated: the formula is beyond the grasp of the average citizen, but we agreed on the principle that the education of this state's children, K-12, should be the priority for every legislature, that it goes to the top, above roads, above tax cuts for big business, above oil and gas credits, blah, blah, blah. Period. If they can recognize and preserve these principles while making honest accommodation of budgeting demands, we may just swallow it. But there won't be any room for facetiousness or sneak-law, as I predict the fighting to be ferocious. And they'd better stop sniping at the "special interests" they say put these laws in place, because for better or worse, We the People put these laws in place. But we thank them for saying we are special... I suppose it must be done. I just hope the wiser heads responsible for crafting changes understand what drove the citizenry to vote these items into the Constitution to begin with: the legislature was UNRESPONSIVE to public opinion. Take TABOR: most people, and I include myself, can’t fully walk through the ratchet-down effect, but that wasn’t what was important for us. What was important was that we be the ones to tax ourselves, or not, as we decide at any given time. So, the bottom line is no new taxes without an election. And they better stop letting “fees,” for example TIF’s and PIF’s, stick their tongues out at the taxation ban, because they’re taxes, dammit, and we never get the chance to say no. The passage of Amendment 23 was similarly motivated: the formula is beyond the grasp of the average citizen, but we agreed on the principle that the education of this state’s children, K-12, should be the priority for every legislature, that it goes to the top, above roads, above tax cuts for big business, above oil and gas credits, blah, blah, blah. Period. If they can recognize and preserve these principles while making honest accommodation of budgeting demands, we may just swallow it. But there won’t be any room for facetiousness or sneak-law, as I predict the fighting to be ferocious. And they’d better stop sniping at the “special interests” they say put these laws in place, because for better or worse, We the People put these laws in place. But we thank them for saying we are special…

]]> By: Stu Brann http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1698 Stu Brann Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:55:46 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1698 A constitution is an enabling document. We don't any longer have such a document. The DU proposals are certainly reasonable, and it should be very hard to amend our constitution but relatively easy to put a change in the established laws up for vote. Let's put a proposed constitution together and have the committee work on it. The notion that our elected representatives are just greedy spendthrifts strikes me as irresponsible; if you don't trust them don't elect them. A constitution is an enabling document. We don’t any longer have such a document. The DU proposals are certainly reasonable, and it should be very hard to amend our constitution but relatively easy to put a change in the established laws up for vote. Let’s put a proposed constitution together and have the committee work on it.
The notion that our elected representatives are just greedy spendthrifts strikes me as irresponsible; if you don’t trust them don’t elect them.

]]> By: Sasha http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1748 Sasha Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:59:00 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1748 Stu said what I would have said but I'm not that articulate. Thanks, Stu. We've had a pattern over the past years of adding a new amendment to our constitution every time we want to change the way we do things. Each time I ask myself "Why don't we just pass a law and leave the constitution alone?" and I vote "No" on the amendment but the darned thing passes anyway. I like Stu's idea of starting over with a new constitution and making it the "enabling" document it's suppposed to be and then make it very difficult to amend. Stu said what I would have said but I’m not that articulate. Thanks, Stu. We’ve had a pattern over the past years of adding a new amendment to our constitution every time we want to change the way we do things. Each time I ask myself “Why don’t we just pass a law and leave the constitution alone?” and I vote “No” on the amendment but the darned thing passes anyway. I like Stu’s idea of starting over with a new constitution and making it the “enabling” document it’s suppposed to be and then make it very difficult to amend.

]]> By: Pages tagged "constitutional" http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1798 Pages tagged "constitutional" Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:58:50 +0000 http://spencerspeaks.com/2008/01/15/constitutional-crisis-trumps-legislative-battles/#comment-1798 [...] bookmarks tagged constitutional Constitutional Crisis Trumps Legislative Battles saved by 5 others     jfizzdiz bookmarked on 01/23/08 | [...] […] bookmarks tagged constitutional Constitutional Crisis Trumps Legislative Battles saved by 5 others     jfizzdiz bookmarked on 01/23/08 | […]

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