<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: With Visa Impass, Uncertainty Grows for Legal Workers, Employers</title>
	<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/</link>
	<description>Here are my thoughts; share yours</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-915</link>
		<author>Keith</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-915</guid>
					<description>This is all such a slippery slope.  I'm on the fence.  It seems to make hypocrites out of those who support this form of legal and illegal immigration and "seasonal employees."  Because the same people who want expand this use of CHEAP immigrant labor, are the same people who claim to support organized labor and fair wages.  

It's always said, mostly by fiscal conservatives, that "They are legally employed in jobs Americans won’t do."  If theses businesses claim they can't do business without cheap immigrant labor and it will put "60-70 Americans out of work, maybe the problem isn't legally and effectively getting cheap immigrant labor into U.S. employment, but rather raising the wage so Americans WILL take these jobs, even if the cost of the product goes up.  Isn't that the business way?  Isn't that why we're paying $3/gal for gas, because oil has hit almost $100/barrel?  

Most of the anti-illegal-immigration(how's that for double negative?!) people are really bigotted and narrow minded people who are more interested in the culture of these immigrants and what they allegedly bring to this nation, rather than an open door immigration policy.  But the reality is, there are some inherent problems in this situation, and the extremists on both sides of the issue are keeping this nation from addressing a real problem.  

Jim is right in pointing out that the hysteria affecting illegal immigration, is not affecting "legal" work visas for seasonal workers, and that's a shame.  A shame for the businessmen and the immigrant workers, but no one seem to care about the out of work Americans who yes, won't do this work, because it doens't pay enough.  Maybe the problem isn't the immigration issue, but the business practice?  Just read where the auto industry is outsourcing some of it's engineering and quality control to China, a long with other companies.  It's the business trend these days.  "Cheap" labor is the going thing these days, and the same people who are upset over the treatment of the illegal immigation issue, don't seem to notice. It's not about organized labor, it's about fair employment and trade practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all such a slippery slope.  I&#8217;m on the fence.  It seems to make hypocrites out of those who support this form of legal and illegal immigration and &#8220;seasonal employees.&#8221;  Because the same people who want expand this use of CHEAP immigrant labor, are the same people who claim to support organized labor and fair wages.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s always said, mostly by fiscal conservatives, that &#8220;They are legally employed in jobs Americans won’t do.&#8221;  If theses businesses claim they can&#8217;t do business without cheap immigrant labor and it will put &#8220;60-70 Americans out of work, maybe the problem isn&#8217;t legally and effectively getting cheap immigrant labor into U.S. employment, but rather raising the wage so Americans WILL take these jobs, even if the cost of the product goes up.  Isn&#8217;t that the business way?  Isn&#8217;t that why we&#8217;re paying $3/gal for gas, because oil has hit almost $100/barrel?  </p>
<p>Most of the anti-illegal-immigration(how&#8217;s that for double negative?!) people are really bigotted and narrow minded people who are more interested in the culture of these immigrants and what they allegedly bring to this nation, rather than an open door immigration policy.  But the reality is, there are some inherent problems in this situation, and the extremists on both sides of the issue are keeping this nation from addressing a real problem.  </p>
<p>Jim is right in pointing out that the hysteria affecting illegal immigration, is not affecting &#8220;legal&#8221; work visas for seasonal workers, and that&#8217;s a shame.  A shame for the businessmen and the immigrant workers, but no one seem to care about the out of work Americans who yes, won&#8217;t do this work, because it doens&#8217;t pay enough.  Maybe the problem isn&#8217;t the immigration issue, but the business practice?  Just read where the auto industry is outsourcing some of it&#8217;s engineering and quality control to China, a long with other companies.  It&#8217;s the business trend these days.  &#8220;Cheap&#8221; labor is the going thing these days, and the same people who are upset over the treatment of the illegal immigation issue, don&#8217;t seem to notice. It&#8217;s not about organized labor, it&#8217;s about fair employment and trade practices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LHKMAN</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-916</link>
		<author>LHKMAN</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-916</guid>
					<description>Considering that the blather from the nativists makes no distinction between the legal (visa-holding) foreign workers and the illegal border-crossers, is any of this at all surprising?  Those sitting in their nice comfortable homes or offices prattling on about foreigners taking jobs from Americans would be the last to take on that work.  Bah, humbug.

Some years ago, when I was an editor of a business publication in New York, we needed a reporter with a specific skill set.  The one we found was a Brit.  By the time we went through all the hoops required to get him a visa so he could work here legally, he had gotten tired of waiting and told us what we could do with our job, our visa, and what else.  Been there, done that.  I am not among those who would ignore illegal border crossing, but even an idiot can see that the current system doesn't work and that the likelihood of our rounding up some 12 million undocumented foreigners, much less finding them, and deporting them is nil.  The nativists, cheered on by demogogues in Congress (listening Terrible Tommy Tancredo?) have accomplished nothing - except to increase the hatred level in a society that doesn't need any more of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering that the blather from the nativists makes no distinction between the legal (visa-holding) foreign workers and the illegal border-crossers, is any of this at all surprising?  Those sitting in their nice comfortable homes or offices prattling on about foreigners taking jobs from Americans would be the last to take on that work.  Bah, humbug.</p>
<p>Some years ago, when I was an editor of a business publication in New York, we needed a reporter with a specific skill set.  The one we found was a Brit.  By the time we went through all the hoops required to get him a visa so he could work here legally, he had gotten tired of waiting and told us what we could do with our job, our visa, and what else.  Been there, done that.  I am not among those who would ignore illegal border crossing, but even an idiot can see that the current system doesn&#8217;t work and that the likelihood of our rounding up some 12 million undocumented foreigners, much less finding them, and deporting them is nil.  The nativists, cheered on by demogogues in Congress (listening Terrible Tommy Tancredo?) have accomplished nothing - except to increase the hatred level in a society that doesn&#8217;t need any more of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wildflower</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-919</link>
		<author>Wildflower</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-919</guid>
					<description>What a bureaucratic mess.People who came here legally to do jobs Americans truly won't do and then return to their homeland can't get the visas they need!
(They used to,  before the current administration.)Some work visas, (without citizenship grants),could solve some of the problems associated with the mass influx of illegal immigration. 
And get all over Mexico's back to do better by their people to make their country a safe place where they can have decent-paying jobs. live and raise their families and have a future for their kids. Send our soldiers there to clean up the drug lords. Send our exported jobs there instead of to China.

This has to be the most inept, bungled bureaucratic mess of a government we have ever had. And you know what, they don't care, it's all about greed and the flaunting of ALL workers. 
Karl Rove's master plan of destroying our middle class is coming to fruition.  Look at the Central and South American countries, is there a middle class, or are a few people VERY wealthy and the rest VERY poor?
Is it any wonder they all want to come here?

But the Democrats are going to lose again if they don't move toward the center on this issue. Compassion, visas,call Mexico to task, but no citizenship for illegals. We simply do NOT have the resources. Not until every American has health care, food to eat and a roof over their head and a decent paying job.
The gov't. shouldn't pretend they're doing something building a border fence. As Gov. Richardson said, if we build a 12 ft. fence the immigrants will build a 13 ft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a bureaucratic mess.People who came here legally to do jobs Americans truly won&#8217;t do and then return to their homeland can&#8217;t get the visas they need!<br />
(They used to,  before the current administration.)Some work visas, (without citizenship grants),could solve some of the problems associated with the mass influx of illegal immigration.<br />
And get all over Mexico&#8217;s back to do better by their people to make their country a safe place where they can have decent-paying jobs. live and raise their families and have a future for their kids. Send our soldiers there to clean up the drug lords. Send our exported jobs there instead of to China.</p>
<p>This has to be the most inept, bungled bureaucratic mess of a government we have ever had. And you know what, they don&#8217;t care, it&#8217;s all about greed and the flaunting of ALL workers.<br />
Karl Rove&#8217;s master plan of destroying our middle class is coming to fruition.  Look at the Central and South American countries, is there a middle class, or are a few people VERY wealthy and the rest VERY poor?<br />
Is it any wonder they all want to come here?</p>
<p>But the Democrats are going to lose again if they don&#8217;t move toward the center on this issue. Compassion, visas,call Mexico to task, but no citizenship for illegals. We simply do NOT have the resources. Not until every American has health care, food to eat and a roof over their head and a decent paying job.<br />
The gov&#8217;t. shouldn&#8217;t pretend they&#8217;re doing something building a border fence. As Gov. Richardson said, if we build a 12 ft. fence the immigrants will build a 13 ft.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LHKMAN</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-920</link>
		<author>LHKMAN</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-920</guid>
					<description>Well, Keith, I think you've said it quite neatly.  The nativists among us choose to live in a black and white world, never seeing any shades of gray, which just happens to be the dominant color.  They prattle on with simplistic slogans and non-solutions, and meanwhile the problem just continues to fester.  You're right; one solution may create another problem.  You're also right, I think, that there is a lot of bigotry in this entire immigration rant (I'd call it a debate except that no one is debating, just shouting at each other.) Yet, I'm troubled that for the first time in American history, we have a group of immigrants (they're immigrants whether legal or not) who choose not to make themselves part of the society.  When my grandparents came to this country shortly after the turn of the 20th Century, they really had to become a part of the society and quickly; they knew they never were going back to the old country and for most of them they never were going to see the families they left behind.  they learned English and they became citizens and were proud to be Americans.  Technology makes it a lot easier today to go back and forth and hold off on committing to being an American.  That's an observation, not a value judgment.  As for paying more to hire Americans, it sounds like a good idea, but it forces prices up, and I know I could do with fewer melons if the price goes above a certain level.  Rising prices, whether triggered by higher wages for labor or higher energy prices still add up to inflation.  As I said, not an easy issue to resolve.  OK, now I've said my piece, and all you simplistic nativists can rage and rant.  Have at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Keith, I think you&#8217;ve said it quite neatly.  The nativists among us choose to live in a black and white world, never seeing any shades of gray, which just happens to be the dominant color.  They prattle on with simplistic slogans and non-solutions, and meanwhile the problem just continues to fester.  You&#8217;re right; one solution may create another problem.  You&#8217;re also right, I think, that there is a lot of bigotry in this entire immigration rant (I&#8217;d call it a debate except that no one is debating, just shouting at each other.) Yet, I&#8217;m troubled that for the first time in American history, we have a group of immigrants (they&#8217;re immigrants whether legal or not) who choose not to make themselves part of the society.  When my grandparents came to this country shortly after the turn of the 20th Century, they really had to become a part of the society and quickly; they knew they never were going back to the old country and for most of them they never were going to see the families they left behind.  they learned English and they became citizens and were proud to be Americans.  Technology makes it a lot easier today to go back and forth and hold off on committing to being an American.  That&#8217;s an observation, not a value judgment.  As for paying more to hire Americans, it sounds like a good idea, but it forces prices up, and I know I could do with fewer melons if the price goes above a certain level.  Rising prices, whether triggered by higher wages for labor or higher energy prices still add up to inflation.  As I said, not an easy issue to resolve.  OK, now I&#8217;ve said my piece, and all you simplistic nativists can rage and rant.  Have at it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wildflower</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-921</link>
		<author>Wildflower</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-921</guid>
					<description>ladder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ladder</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: urthpigg</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-926</link>
		<author>urthpigg</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-926</guid>
					<description>Maybe Europeans, Asians, and African slaves once came to this continent to do the necessary jobs that American Indians would not do, such as being a hedge fund manager.  That must have made life much easier for the people who were already here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Europeans, Asians, and African slaves once came to this continent to do the necessary jobs that American Indians would not do, such as being a hedge fund manager.  That must have made life much easier for the people who were already here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chuparosa</title>
		<link>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-942</link>
		<author>Chuparosa</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://spencerspeaks.com/2007/11/09/with-visa-impass-uncertainty-grows-for-legal-workers-employers/#comment-942</guid>
					<description>Ranting is certainly the correct term for this sorry prejudice-ridden debate.  How much should a seasonal laborer get paid?  I own a landscape business. Contrary to the common misperception, we pay higher than average wages, provide benefits - even for seasonal laborers, and share profits in a significant way with our employees. (Yes, even with the seasonal laborers.)  On top of that, there are substantial costs involved in processing the H2B visas, and tremendous hidden costs incurred by operating in a bilingual - multicultural manner.  If anyone thinks that businesses in their right mind want to go through this pain, they've obviously never had the responsibility of caring for a business.  The continuation of the H2b program is a significant problem and I appreciate Jim's honest look at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ranting is certainly the correct term for this sorry prejudice-ridden debate.  How much should a seasonal laborer get paid?  I own a landscape business. Contrary to the common misperception, we pay higher than average wages, provide benefits - even for seasonal laborers, and share profits in a significant way with our employees. (Yes, even with the seasonal laborers.)  On top of that, there are substantial costs involved in processing the H2B visas, and tremendous hidden costs incurred by operating in a bilingual - multicultural manner.  If anyone thinks that businesses in their right mind want to go through this pain, they&#8217;ve obviously never had the responsibility of caring for a business.  The continuation of the H2b program is a significant problem and I appreciate Jim&#8217;s honest look at it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
